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I wrote a detailed description of the current situation of the vocations.
However I took so much time that when I wanted to post it, it said that I would have to login again first, because of this I lost everything I wrote.
So I thought why not do this together.
Feel free to post your thoughts about what needs to be done.
I will start.
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Extreme-,Slow-,Merger runes:
They need to get an exhaust. Slow and Merger runes a higher one than extreme runes, I thought about 10 seconds.
Admin SD:
General damage needs to be lowered.
Sorcerers:
Either buff the damage of mega mas flam or lower the mana cost.
Druids:
Immune spell will root the target in place and decrease the damage he does for 25%.
SD damage will be reduced by ~15%.
Paladins:
Current weakness only because the insane SD damage.
Knights:
Shouldn't be able to run from exeta taunt for like 5 seconds, or lower the cooldown to 30 seconds.

I can only tell about paladins since it's the only vocation I do play, well, I've been told several times that this is not a "regular" server, but I insist to say that, paladin should be tanky/damager, the middle between mages and knights, and what we currently see at server, is druids being tanky, druids being the best damagers, it's all about druids.

Our new spell is a total joke just as much as the other vocations but druids, It damage does barely 2x a mega holy, and costs half mana. I really dont even have it on my hotkeys anymore. (Died like 30 times on that quest to get it, to be useless)

Our only weakness isn't only about the insane SD damage, I'm not the best pvper, but damage is really wrong. It should be at least just a bit weaker than mages and our tanky ability should be weaker than the knight's as well (I do think our tanky its "fine" atm) ALSO (remember I do know that this isn't a common server as said) but at global (and most servers) paladins best advantage in my opinion, is the fact that we have a really nice physical damage, and we can do some magic damage, and as the knights, we have magic helping our physical damage power.

I think what we miss around here, is that even with rich spear, you can barely do any damage to your oponent (same for rich sword) in other hand, crafted bow does nice damage, but takes a lot to get 100 envenomed arrows and they end up fast. All resume to spells and runes (which is 100% mage style pvp) so I would be totaly open to a total rework on how vocations work, because atm, they aren't working well, I know that a lot of players that just left other characters to start a druid. Only that fact is enough to see that vocations are unbalanced.

lol misunderstanding

Even I who play as a druid think that they need to get a heavy nerf, pally's should get a boost.

@Hortblade
I'm the best pally for sure on this OT. And I will tell you something. I have to agree with Gollum, Pallies damage is good enough if you know how to deal it. Pallies weakness is all about crazy SD damage. If not that, mages would be shit.



Yours Pieroo

Been looking at this thread several times but didn't bother to post anything until now.
Gollum, a tip is to copy the text next time before you login. (and then paste it into a new thread).

Have in mind that everything I will include below is my own thoughts. I don't expect you to agree on everything but instead consider it.
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Before we talk about balancing, what kind of balance are we after?
* When all the Vocations deal the same amount of damage?
* When all the Vocations have different purposes?
* Should rebirth be an requirement for a good balance?

It is the Staff that decide what kind of balance it should be among the Vocations. Naturally, every single vocation must have various characteristics in order to satisfy different playing styles and preferences. Hence, the balance between those vocations here cannot be perfect. The ideal balance has to account for the wanted differences between those vocations. But I'm sure we players can help. We play the game, we know the issues.

When I talk about the Vocations, I refer to when they're above +1000

What I think we all can agree with is that Druids are slightly overpowered at this moment.
If we ignore Admin SD for a moment, a Druid rebirth 1000 can kill a Druid rebirth 1200.
Here, the rebirth doesn't have any high advantage. Even with the SD it's possible to kill a higher Druid. (if not easier)
If we change to a Knight, a rebirth 1000 cannot kill a rebirth 1200.

When we include things, we also have to include all the options every Vocation have. Even if a player is lazy. Several options exist to increase your character.

So, let's start with including some things Gollum mentioned.

Extreme runes / Admin SD / Paralyze Rune / Merger Runes / Challenge Spells / Exeta Taunt.
He mentioned some things above, but what exactly will happend if we change all these things?
Will it make it more balance or simply boost another Vocation?
What most OTs do wrong is that they see a issue and do to many change. Which usually ends with making another Vocation better than the others.

Let's get to it...( I will include the Extreme Runes further down).
I will start by writing some things about the Vocations and then share it all in overall below the Extreme runes.

Druids.

Paralyze Rune:
I do agree with Gollum that their Slow Runes should have a cooldown. 10 seconds as he mentiond. It's true that this rune exist in RL-Tibia but RL-Tibia do not have Freeze Runes.
Without the exhaust, the Slow Runes offer a high amount of crowd control, if not the best among the Vocations.

Exura Immune:
This spell is really hard to make a change on. Gollum mentioned one change and players must understand his point of making an actual cost for the druid spell since it gives them a huge advantage in fight, especially after the increment of Admin SD damage.

But I'm not 100% sure about being rooted. It sounds good on the paper. But in order to make it fully efficient, perhaps the caster must always be rooted (if he e.g cast it on someone else)? Or atleast get a skull when casted.
How much harder will it be to do Quests for a Druid or block monsters in some situations.
But on the other hand, the other Vocations do not have this kind of advantage.
I'm going to agree with Gollum on this change instead of adding my ideas. I currently think this idea might be the best.

Admins SD:
The advantage of getting such a high magic level and be able to abuse the damage in PK and while leveling is bad. But I'm not sure if a decrement will make it balance with all the changes.
I'd personally ask for a change in the 'Advancement in Magic Levels'. Perhaps add a limit.
After the limit, they can still increase the damge with rebirths. (will share more information further down).

Sorcerers:

I don't have that much to say about this vocation except increasing their damage.
It's rare to see a Sorcerer and I therefor have nothing to say about them. Except that they should deal more damage than Druids. Druids got the advantage of Paralyze Runes and Exura Immune.
Perhaps I would like to see a change on Mega Vis Lux.
While Druids and Paladins only have to target their opponents, it's quite hard as a Sorcerer to aim with their shot. But as mentioned, I really dont know how much it affects them.

Paladin:

Survival:
All I see about players that use Paladins are complaints. I do understand them but I do not fully agree. It's true that the damage changed lately and that it's harder to survive. But I do not see any Paladins play with Utamo Vita. Utamo Vita were not necessary earlier. Basically Paladins were like a Knight with lesser HP. But now they have to change their game-play, simply use the features the server offers. Utamo Vita / Mana Per Soul.

Damage:
I don't think the damage is that bad. Surely an increment on Admin SD might be necessary (just as knights) but besides that it's pretty good.
EXCEPT the their challenge spell. It's a bloody joke atm. The cooldown ain't that long but the damge is a joke. It's not even useful. And if they don't increase the damge, a lesser mana cost would be suitable.

Merger Runes, here I agree with Gollum. If used properly, they can use 2 merger runes within 1 freeze. It's basically 50% damage on the opposites players HP/MANA.

Knights:'
You think me as a Knight would have a lot to say about Knights. But the truth is I don't.
The only thing I'd want to see is a change on Exeta Taunt. Just like Gollum mentioned.
And perhaps a chance to advance faster in Magic Level or make a hugher purpose with Sword Fighting. (same can be said about Paladins I guess).
Our Mega Gran might be the biggest joke so perhaps it can increase with Sword Fighting?
For those who doesn't know this.. Our Mega Gran feels like 50-70% lesser than the other Mega Spells.
I wouldn't be surprise if it's wrong written in the code.

Even though we shouldn't rely on %. I deal 1-2 % on a target while a druid dealt 4-5% with their Mega Frigo. The Druid was 600 rebirths lower.


Extreme Runes:

I don't want a change on this. It's true that the damage gives such a high critical that it may sometimes be silly. But as a Knight, it's basically our only attack option to kill someone.
All you need to know right now.

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So, now to the hard part. How are we going to make the Vocations balanced?
Even though I could write a lot more about the Vocations, I decided to make it small.

I wouldn't risk anything with a huge change. I would do steps. And the first step would include this:

* Add a root effect on Exura Immune
* Add a cooldown on Paralyze Rune & Merger Rune
* Fix the Exeta Taunt spell so you cannot run away for 5 seconds

.[You may ask] Why do steps and why these changes ?
Simply because doing huge changes do not always end well. I instead think tests for a week is better to see what happends.
The main issue I see are Druids. They use these simple things to own the situation:
Slow > attack > freeze > immune > run like hell.
I mentioned the merger rune above and the exeta taunt doesn't have any good purpose.

After a week or perhaps 2 weeks I would do a change if it wouldn't be balanced. I personally think this might be enough. Player rebirth rather fast now so it's not odd that it requires a higher damage.
No change on the damage. Paladins should start using Utamo Vita during those weeks.

If it's not balanced, we can focus on the damage. Perhaps the second step could be a Magic level limit etc. But we're not there yet
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In the future I would also want to see some changes on the set. Everyone use the same equipment so it's not a change there. In RL-Tibia Knights rely on heavy armor and Mages on lighter. Which is a change when it comes to blocking.

Perhaps adding some sort of "enchant item" in the webshop or ingame.
Knights could get more protection by using this item.
If they add a limit on the Magic Level, Mages could increase their Magic level with this item.

"Have in mind when I talk about Magic Levels, the mages still need to reach this special limit. They do not start with it." Also it's just in the "consider stage" atm.

This is just my thoughts. I didn't want to include and drastic changes because (as mentioned) huge changes never ends well. I'll stick with the steps I mentioned previously. I know that this may not happend at all. But it would actually be great if you could try to put your view about all the Vocations.
I understand that players only see benefits about the other Vocations and not their own.

Also in most cases it may just be 1 or 2 things that make one certain Vocation better that usually trick your mind that they're better in every way.

Anyway, I'm sure the Staff appreciate all oppinions but I urge the Staff to not do to many changes.

Druid@:
immune should be 50% protection + he only can use it when he unfreeze.

pally@:
idk my char so weakness dmg too i need cm or admin to go for a real test in game with my char

sorcerer@:

no comment

knight :@

i agree with gollum suggestion.




one more thing i didnt read anything of riesen topic but i think it's useful hope i had time to read all but like it



Yours Death rush,

The true joke is our hellborn spell, when I tested it, it did the same damage like my mega spell both 2%.
P.S.:
About the mega vis lux spell , I had in mind about removing it but keep the exori mort strike for sorcerers only. But I thought better not mention it because people will only think I want druids to be underpowered, which is not the case.
But after some thinking I thought maybe remove the 10% extra damage the immune spell does, and add that as an hellborn spell for druids.
For example "utito tempo "gollum" when someone would use it my next attack does 10% more damage. Would have to be discussed if they should be able to do it on themself, as well as the cooldown and % damage.
Yours sincerely,
Gollum

Also maybe you should decrease the loss of a death, because it's quite annoying to lose something in each skill for what I have to train for hours again to get it back.
Maybe with such a cap you could remove the loss?
Also it would be nice to maybe add % protection for shielding level so paladins and knights get a bit more "tankiness" shouldn't be much only a little bonus, with that the paladins shielding skill should advance slower and considering you make a cap, the cap should be lower also.
Yours sincerely,
Gollum

"Paladins should start using Utamo Vita during those weeks."

I always use Utamo Vita. Anyway I got to say something about HP/MANA of pallies/eks. So let's see.
1220 druid/1220 pally, Druid got more mana than Pally hp and mana. Is it a joke or what?
1220 Knight/1220 druid. Knight got like 50% of druids mana as hp. It's almost nothing if we consider that Knights are just dying and dying in wars. I'd like to see changes in HP/MANA of pallies and HP of knights.


Yours Pieroo